Curse

DistortedImage · Jul 06, 2005, 08:48 AM // 08:48

This a build I've made and gotten to test in the Competition Arenas. My roleplaying character of it is 17 and doesn't yet have forge armor, but I've used a pvp only character which is admittedly not as good. This is how I use it. My question is, does it fit into a group in the tombs?

Mesmer/Necromancer
Fast Casting 8
Domination 14
Blood Magic 12

Shadow Strike
Vampiric Gaze
Life Siphon (will be much more effective as life transfer)
Energy Burn
Backfire
Power Spike
Empathy
Chaos Storm/Resurrection Signet

The primary focus of this build is killing people, but it does it in a slightly indirect way.

Against casters: Wait until a spell is cast and disrupt it with power spike (almost 100 damage). The brief period there allows you to cast backfire, which, if they cast gives them over 130 more damage. Immediately after that, cast shadow strike for 82 damage, followed by Energy Burn and Vampiric gaze. End with Life Transfer. All of this does an enormous amount of damage and even if they do not cast a spell after you use backfire, it still stops their spell casting ability. The blood magic does a good job of healing yourself. Good enough to keep you alive if they do do some damage to you.

Against melees: Start off with empathy. While they are whacking away at you to the tune of 28 or so damage per hit to themselves, quickly cast Shadow Strike, Energy Burn, Vampiric Gaze, and Life Transfer. Add Chaos Storm if you have it. All this doing damage while they do damage to themselves, and healing you.

Rangers/Anyone else: simply outdamage them... use your imagination

The great part about all of this damage is that it's not any type of damage. They cannot resist it as one could resist an elementalist's spells. And you cast it quite quickly with the help of fast casting.

appoc · Jul 06, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

This sounds very good, I have to ask, since I am thinking of making a Me/N too, does this build work well in PvP and PvE?

MCS · Jul 06, 2005, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Tombs are purely team.

All those backfire etc is great not for the damage but for making them not cast while it gets removed but truly you won't kill anything on your own.

As a mesmer/necro your job should truly be to disable casters either by draining their energy or using things like diversion and to strip enchantments.

Although thats not ENTIRELY their use it's generally it.

Empathy and chaos storm are useless. Gaze and life siphon are also useless. Shadow strike, once agian, useless.

Sorry to be so harsh.

GWMonkey · Jul 06, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Interesting.

appoc · Jul 06, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

Tombs are purely team.

All those backfire etc is great not for the damage but for making them not cast while it gets removed but truly you won't kill anything on your own.

As a mesmer/necro your job should truly be to disable casters either by draining their energy or using things like diversion and to strip enchantments.

Although thats not ENTIRELY their use it's generally it.

Empathy and chaos storm are useless. Gaze and life siphon are also useless. Shadow strike, once agian, useless.

Sorry to be so harsh.

Hmm... Why do you think these sucks? and which spells would you say to use in PVP instead? :O
Hmm...
Since I'm up to start a Me/N I really need to know quickly.

Thx...

KallDrexx · Jul 06, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by appoc

Hmm... Why do you think these sucks? and which spells would you say to use in PVP instead? :O
Hmm...
Since I'm up to start a Me/N I really need to know quickly.

Thx...

Backfire isn't great for damage because most teams seem to remove it. Plus all they ahve to do is protective spirit the backfired person if they can't remove it and then backfire will only do a max of 10% of their health in damage, which at 500 health means backfire will only do a measly 50 damage. An Orison can heal much more then that on most healing monks (any decent monk's orison better heal more :P)

The best damage to do really is degen using spells like conjure phantasm, phantom pain, etc. It's good to put some hexes in there also to cover up so they can't be easily removed. Degen doesn't get affected by protective spirit and the such. Using some necro spells to add degen means you can easily get them to 10 pips. YOu do that to multiple people and you can mess a team up

There are some other options though, such as making a fragility build, but I havn'et been able to come up with a damage mesmer I was happy with. Also, Wastrel's worry is a great damage spell, especially if you can shut them down.

Morganas · Jul 06, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

You'd need at least two energy restoration skills to fuel those skills you have, at least if you want to do any good past the first few moments of battle.

Normal damage mesmers make no sense, a ranger, an elementalist, or warrior can all do the job better if they spec for it, so there's no reason to take them over you for dps.

Now, if you want to make a mesmer who can damage well, you should take one of two routes:

a) Degen mesmer. Your dps won't be as high as a dps class, but degen cannot be countered by most spell protections. Ideally, you'd have migraine so you can come with an interrupt or two and enhance their effectiveness. Use arcane echo and carry the 3 mesmer degen spells, so you can put them on multiple foes to overwhelm the healer. Make sure not to stack over 10 degen on a target though.

b) Be a shutdown mesmer, but your damage comes a side effect of shutdown. You can either do this by using mind wrack with an energy denial build, or wastrels with a "true shutdown build", that is, power block/arcane echo and other mesmer or ranger spells that will actually make it so the lose their skills.

Edge Martinez · Jul 06, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Well Chaos Storm is useless because they sidestep 5 feet and no more damage. Backfire works ok, but I normally don't waste the energy on it unless I know if he casts he will die, or if I'm using it as part of a combo attack to maintain shutdown... and then you're gambling that he won't just accept the damage and cast anyway.

Xevian · Jul 06, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Try this instead for HoH

N/Me
Curses to 10+1, Domination to 12, rest in soul reaping ( 8+1 )

Backfire
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Power Spike
Shatter Enchantment
Parasitic Bond
Defile Flesh
Res Signet or Ignorance

Strategy? Soul reaping ensures you'll always have mana (someone is ALWAYS dying, be it a player, pet, or spirit), so chaincast on their monks. Throw backfire, defile flesh, and parasitic bond on one monk (the parasitic bond is to catch their first hex removal, and heal you too! booya!), then target another and start spiking / surging / interrupting / shattering. Res signet is good when your party needs everyone to have it (great in HoH as you're always getting morale boosts if you're winning heh), otherwise Ignorance can really shut down the spirits / signet healing builds.

Have fun!

Coordinating targets with your team is a plus, as you won't be killing anyone on your own unless their team hates them and refuses to heal them.

Glasswalker · Jul 06, 2005, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortedImage

The primary focus of this build is killing people

Really? I've been working on a build to create meaningful relationships, and organize truces.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

Empathy and chaos storm are useless. Gaze and life siphon are also useless. Shadow strike, once agian, useless.

I don't exactly know Mesmers, but I've worked with them a lot. In my experience Empathy isn't useless, but you shouldn't rely on it to kill a warrior by itself, that's for sure. CS is useless only if used on it's own. Use Imagined Burden or something to keep the target in it's effect and suddenly it's very useful. One last note on the Mesmer side, have you thought about Illusionary Weaponry?

Now, Necros I know. Gaze and Shadow Strike, useless? That is a new take entirely. You will be damaging an enemy while healing yourself. Not useless. Shadow Strike of course has it's greatest effect when the opponent is over 50% health, so watch their meter, and be prepared to switch tactics or targets. Also watch your energy. You will quickly lose it with this build, and you have shown no signs of backup plan.

Life Siphon is good degen, but easily removed. Back it up with something or it will do little on it's own. Phantom Pain perhaps? BTW, you said that this damage can't be resisted, but that isn't exactly true. There is Hexbreaker, and a couple others depending upon class that will resist/remove the effects of some of these spells.

Sorry to pull your build apart but better here than in combat, right? I would agree with the above poster and recommend Fragility, then throw on conditions. 28 damage per condition gained and removed adds up to serious damage (5 conditions = 280 damage) then hack at them with your IW.

Don't listen to posters who say Mesmers shouldn't do damage. There are counters for all the obvious builds out there, and I think the people who say that want you to fit the mold they know how to deal with. Keep working at it, and keep us on our toes.

BUT -- you will never be able to take on a team by yourself. You probably knew that but the phrasing of your build sounds like you are trying to.

DistortedImage · Jul 07, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Well it's had a lot of success in 1v1 combat, but a monk (or 3) would change a lot.

However, your concerns affect a lot of the hexes, but not some of the core of the build.

With 8 fast casting and using power spike, shadow strike, energy burn, and vampiric gaze you can do about 300 damage in about 3.5 seconds. I don't know how a warrior or a ranger could do something like that. However, maybe these four skills could be combined with something else.

The flaws of this build are obvious. The energy factor. After killing one person you're pretty much spent other than throwing empathys and backfires or energy spikes in other people's battles. The problem is you have to take another line of casting, inspiration, to gain energy. If you take domination down to level 12, then you can take Inspiration up to 9. You could then use the energy skills from there to regain your energy with only a minor damage cost. I still think this kind of thing can work though.

Wastral's Worry was mentioned. Can you stack those? I mean repeated cast it and have all of them work, or do you have to wait for them to take the damage at the end of the 3 seconds.

Maybe try to refocus this build on taking just casters?

KallDrexx · Jul 07, 2005, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortedImage

Wastral's Worry was mentioned. Can you stack those? I mean repeated cast it and have all of them work, or do you have to wait for them to take the damage at the end of the 3 seconds.

Wastral's Worry can't be stacked. You have to wait for the 3 seconds to be up before recasting it.

appoc · Jul 07, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glasswalker

Sorry to pull your build apart but better here than in combat, right? I would agree with the above poster and recommend Fragility, then throw on conditions. 28 damage per condition gained and removed adds up to serious damage (5 conditions = 280 damage) then hack at them with your IW.

28 damage per condition huh?... and 5 conditions... 5 x 28 = 140 NOT 280

Schorny · Jul 07, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by appoc

28 damage per condition huh?... and 5 conditions... 5 x 28 = 140 NOT 280

You know, conditions get removed sometime, so fragility triggers twice per condition...

Glasswalker · Jul 07, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

You know, conditions get removed sometime, so fragility triggers twice per condition...

Precisely. That's why it's 10x not 5x. The spell triggers when a hex is cast, and when it ends. Even if it is removed, it is considered to have ended at that point. With a decent amount in Illusion (12+) Fragility lasts for 18+seconds, and some conditions will end within that time, even if they aren't dispelled.

I've got to say though, that Xevian's build looks pretty good. I would play around with that to get your feet wet. But I like Life Siphon better than Parasitic Bond -- I usually find the regen pretty useful during those 20 seconds, and 1 degen on the other guy is kinda pathetic... But both are pretty spammable so take your pick. I would recommend against Life Transfer though because the duration is much shorter, it is not spammable, and it takes up a valuable Elite spot. I guess the reason for PB in this build is because Xevian went with Curses instead of Blood but even at bare minimum, LS is pretty effective.

Xevian · Jul 07, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glasswalker

I guess the reason for PB in this build is because Xevian went with Curses instead of Blood but even at bare minimum, LS is pretty effective.

Actually the reason I went with PB is because it's 5 mana and no real recharge time. I can throw it on someone to protect backfire, then when i see the +90 some odd life on me, (they removed hex, got PB) i toss it on again. Very cheap, efficient hex buffer to protect your real hexes.